in
the bar in the Columbia Hotel talking to Johnny
Dowd.Good afternoon to you Johnny.
afternoon.
how
you doing?
good.
you
played a gig last night at the Borderline. Is this
your London debut?
uh yeah.. it was
first time here
first
time in England?
uh..yeah. yes it
was...yeah
so
totally new experience here
absolutely..
great..really enjoyed it.great crowd.band played
good, we had fun
one
thing I've noticed Johnny having listened to your
album Wrong Side of Memphis for the best part of the
last three months since its release in this
country..how different your live performances are to
the recorded cd. I'm not saying there is a norm here
but normally it's often the case that it is the other
way round..that someone goes into the studio, almost
over-produces an album and then gets on the road with
maybe a small band and strips the music down..you've
done it the other way round.
yeah it just kinda
happened that way..I wasn't doin a band thing at the
time I was doin that album.. I was pretty much on my
own..I wasn't even planning on doing a band thing
anymore...then the album kinda took off in a way so I
put a band together ..so yeah it did kinda happen
backwards... you know for me it's..recordings one
thing and live's another..I wouldn't really be
interested in trying to re-create what I did
recording or even from night to night .I'm not much
into duplification..like if I say somethin three
times, I believe it the first time, not sure the
second time, third time sounds like a lie so I
couldn't really re-duplicate that album y'know. It
has kinda the same kind of emotional feel even though
it's more of a rock and roll thing.
more
of a show, but that's what most shows should be.
yeah I think so,
it's like rock and roll,if it's gonna be live it's
gotta be rock and roll....an album is more of an
atmospheric thing.
do
you prefer recording or being on the road?
[pause] ..that's
tough it's so absolutely different y'know, it's
hard..recording's nice 'cos it's just me and I'm not
dealing with people but being on the road is nice
'cos it's being with people so I mean it's
different.I'm more..it's harder for me to deal with
people than it is just to be locked up in a room
doing my own thing but y'know ..I guess they're
both..you gotta really do both if you're gonna be in
the business..I'm tryin' to be in the business so I
don't even think about what I wanna....y'know..I'm
just tryin' to do what the job is..that's part of the
job so y'know..
you
turned fifty this year and few months later in Europe
the release of your debut album ..sort of leaving it
a bit late?
yeah[laughing]..the
train finally left the station..yeah it's interestin'
...if this was a movie or a book y'know..about
somebody's life I think..these things started
happenin' for him so late ..so I tried to look at it
like that y'know..in that way it's interestin' ..I'm
living a twenty year-old person's lifestyle at
fifty..so that's kinda hard but on the other hand
........well on the other hand what...I don't know...
as
you say the train has left the station
the train left the
station..that's right..I got my ticket punched..I'm
ready to go[laughs]
have
you been writing songs for the best part of your
life?
uh ..I've always
written ever since I was a kid..y'know little
little..poems..or just little phrases and then I
wrote poems and then at some point I started putting
guitar behind them and a poem becomes a song kinda
thing. I've always written ..I hadn't really ..I
didn't start playing music 'til I was in my late
tewnties so..I consider myself more like I'm kind of
a lyric man I guess...no well.. I don't know..|I
don't know what I am..but..
when
did you leave Fort Worth, Texas to go to Oklahoma?
uh..[pause]..we
left fort Worth..I was about three..then moved to
Memphis, Tennessee..lived there for a while then ..I
really grew up in Oklahoma. I really consider
Oklahoma..'cos all my relatives pretty much on both
sides..well a lot of 'em are dead now but most of my
relatives that are alive still live in Oklahoma or
are buried in Oklahoma so i still consider that home.
is
that where your fondest memories lie?
well that's where
my fondest and my least fond memories lie..both
yeah..
the
good and the bad?
yeah, yeah, y'know
that's where my..y'know, my formative years, same for
everybody..that's just..that's where those little
songs came out of that..came out of Oklahoma. ..like
the fact if I'd grew up in London I'm sure I'd
written a different kinda song but it would've had to
have been rooted here somehow..
where
are your roots?
you mean
musically? Uh ..blues stuff, fifties singles, old
music..little country maybe although I've never
really listened much to country growin' up..it was
more rhythm and blues, Bobby Blue Bland, people like
that ..Five Royales..
Stevie
Ray Vaughan?
no..nah..no....Just
older blues things, doo-wop music, Dion & The
Belmonts..I had two older sisters so the rockabilly
thing, Ricky Nelson always, y'know all those guys,
Gene Vincent, just before my era so..T.V. shows
..probably influenced as much by movies as ..your
influences..really my mom and dad if you're gonna
really come down to it probably..I guess music you'd
hear around the house, my dad was really into big
band music ..Glen Miller, Frank Sinatra..my parents
were big dancers..loved to dance. The music doesn't
sound much like any of that, that I'm doin' but it
just has..like you put somethin' in a container and
it filters out and turns into somethin' totally
different ..my Lightnin' Hopkins ends up soundin' the
way I do it ..
like
saying Beck's influences include Willie Nelson but
Beck doesn't sound anything like Willie Nelson..
yeah, yeah.. what
you like or maybe what you don't like.. I'm sure a
lot of my influences are just like ..a lot of music
that I don't like..this is like all the stuff that
you hear on ..or a lot of the stuff I'd hear on the
radio at that time particularly and stuff that to me
had no..I don't know.. no edge to it, no rock and
roll to it..no sense of danger or things I'd identify
with rock and roll..I just didn't hear any more..take
all that out and just what's left..it's like take all
the cream and sugar out of the coffee and let it sit
for three days and that would be like one of my
songs..like a bitter cold cup of coffee..nobody else
was doing it..I don't think like I invented the wheel
but on the other hand it's a little different than
what's out there and I'm happy with it on that level.
until
quite recently music to me seems to have been on the
periphery of your life, you spent some time in the
army, you started your own business with a friend of
yours which you still have so how ..is it like you're
leading a double life at the moment?
kind of...music
has always been my interior life..music ..that's
always what meant the most..it's always what...at
various times in my life I'd be like **** it ...I'd
give up on music.. it's time to grow up..music, rock
and roll doesn't mean anything, blues is for old
people or whatever and then , and then it would come
back ..and then it would be -'this is what means
somethin' and none of the rest of this stuff means
anything..all this so-called real stuff..business,
the bottom line, jobs..all of that stuff..what really
means something to me is music..but it's hard to keep
the faith..it's just like believing in ..it's like a
belief in God..you have to work at that..you don't
say I believe in God .. forget it and walk off
y'know..it's like an active thing and I've had to
work at believing that music matters and believe that
I had a place in it, that my music was gonna
matter..that's why it's been good to get the thing
out and having some response ..like anybody
else..yourself or whoever...it does matter..I don't
know..how can I tell..there's no mirror, I was just
in a room looking at a wall..like am I flippin' out?
Is this just like self-indulgent or would somebody
else listen to it . I've learned more about what I'm
doing by listenin' to other people..'cos I didn't
know what I was doing..really I didn't really have
the sense of it.
lyrically
it's quite downbeat ...the album, are you preying on
the bad things that have happened to you or the bad
feelings that are in your head?
Well, you can't
have good things happen unless you overcome the bad
things ..to me it's just like ..yeah some of the
songs are at that point..but that's at the point
where it's interesting ..I mean you're married or
have a girlfriend or whatever.. right now you're
getting along fine let's say ..that's great..but
that's not very interesting ..that doesn't say much
about you or her..then somethin' comes along ..you're
tempted to stray or you have a kid and financial
burdens come on or she's playing around..then you got
somethin' interesting..how are you gonna react to
that? Maybe you're gonna react badly and then you're
gonna have to like deal with that ..ask forgiveness,
don't ask forgiveness..do whatever and that's the
point that to me is ..things are interestin' to me
..when it turns bad...but it's not about bad stuff...
it's just about how do you deal with it..everybody's
on death row, not to get metaphorical ..you're all on
death row, we're all carrying a coffin on our back
...that's not dwelling on the negative..that's just
facing facts y'know..
realistic?
realistic and just
y'know deal with it from there..and hopefully there's
all kinda ways to deal with it..I guess my way of
dealin' with it is writing songs about it..I wouldn't
say it's the best way but it's just ..it's one of the
ways that if you get lucky they'll pay you for doing
it that ways[laughs]..it just kinda happened for me..
that way.
do
you think people judge you from the lyrics you write?
yeah I think
people they probably have some expectations like ....
you
carry a crucifix on the stage or...
well yeah more
that like...people wanna identify the song with the
singer...thing..I mean I do too..you see so and so
singing...'I shot a man in Reno just to see him
die'..you identify that with Johnny Cash, Johnny Cash
didn't shoot a man in Reno but he's believable and
that's ..I don't blame people ..if you're performing
..youre supposed to be believable ..for that moment
it is true..everything is just true in the moment..
bottom
line is people can believe what they want to believe?
yeah, I don't
feel..maybe if I was younger I'd feel the need to
live up to somebody's idea but it's like ..
can't
be bothered?
I mean I can't do
it..much less be bothered ..the song that's most like
me is probably 'Average Guy'..I'm an average...lot of
people feel the album is so weird but I just think
pretty common thoughts..pretty common ideas and
they're just expressed from a narrow ..kinda an Okie
..way..I don't think anything too out of line....
just like rap music..rap music..somebody like Biggie
Smalls or somethin'..man that's dwelling on the
negative it won't ...not really it's just his
life..it's not particularly negative just a
songwriter reflecting on that kinda thing. So....
as
you said at the start of the interview it is very
self-indulgent?
yeah..yeah
how's
the furniture moving business?
uh I like it, I
always liked moving furniture around it's the kinda
job that's simple ..you go to the house you got an
empty truck..you empty the house, fill the truck..go
to the next house, empty the truck, fill the house ,
you get the money and you're gone..that was about as
complicated a business as I wanted to deal with
really. On the negative side it doesn't pay much and
at this point like loading furniture eight hours a
day is getting harder..at fifty I don't really have
as much energy to want to be doing that kind of
stuff. Kinda hoping me and my partner can find a way
to move on out of that business somehow..I love the
business -I always enjoyed doing it.
Also
on the positive side something like that in the
daytime kind of re-focuses yourself on your thoughts
for music..is it beneficial?
I complained about
it all the time at the time in a way but...
the
grass is always greener?
that's what I hear
in music now..like people who have been in bands
since they were sixteen or somethin' so their frame
of reference is a very narrow lifestyle..your average
musician a lot of times..is kinda narrow..for
me..like what I always admired..my idea of musicians
was people like ..guys in the forties and
fifties..you had a job..then you played music on your
porch..or at a dance for other people..the southern
thing..I'm not really doing it in that fashion..but
that was my idea of it..not this idea of music as a
career..that's what so much music now seems to
be...you can make money..you can start a band ..to me
those songs ..it's working class..I am working
class..not remembering being working class..I'm still
working..I think that does have an effect on what I'm
doing....if the songs have any like depth to it it's
because of the life that I led ..not that I chose
it..if you'd given me an out and a bunch of money I'd
have chucked the business and been a rock star..25
years ago I'm sure...but as it turns out I didn't
have a choice and that's what made that what it is
and me what I ended up being...I feel I've paid my
dues in the working class world now..I wouldn't mind
being successful in the music thing and being able to
concentrate on.. it's hard for me to work eight hours
on the truck and go home and do music ..which I did
when I was younger. it's hard to have that much
energy so ..i'd have plenty of energy if I could just
do music...I'm hoping maybe that'll happen if things
take off with the record companies and stuff..
what
was the turning point Johnny because you were 47
years old and you wrote an album..what made you
record on your four-track in your home?
well the turning
point was when I finally just gave up trying, gave up
being in bands, gave up trying to play with other
people and just like the album was a **** you to the
whole dream of music for me. Just do this, I'm not
gonna play with anybody, I'm not gonna let anybody
listen..and then in one of those sort of Zen whatever
it turns out .. out of all the things I did this was
the thing people liked..I thought when I listened to
it..here's somethin' dammit, nobody will like, the
hell with you..and people went wow, not everybody,
but a lot of people who were friends of mine, who
were real music nuts like me ..this is good..I sent
it out to some people and they wrote a nice thing...
was
this the reaction you wanted?
it
threw me because my whole reaction to what I was
doing and what the reaction of the world was , was so
completely wrong..It's good that it was wrong but it
was still like disconcerting.. you think you're
saying **** you and they say I really like you..Oh,
now I'm kinda coming around to it - still always like
thinking maybe they're pulling my leg , maybe people
are laughing, paranoid..I've always been kinda ..had
that paranoia in my personality about stuff like that
but I mean it's stupid 'cos there's no reason people
would..
maybe
that's the side effect of being creative?
maybe
it's that ..who knows..I'd like to get over that..it
prevents you from enjoying any success that you might
have.
just
going over the sequence of events..you got a signing
deal with Bug Music
I
got a deal with Checkered Past the label in Chicago
and I think after that I signed up with Bug,
administrators..I don't know what the hell they are
exactly..it's a good organization..after that I got
hooked up with Munich Records..that's been a real
break..they really got behind me and spent
money..brought me over here and different stuff like
that so they're kinda..my chance of having success,
at least in a business sense, is very much tied in
with them .they've been really great with me..they
say they're gonna do somethin' and they actually do
it which is a rare thing in the music business so
far..like I can't believe it..been real good.
kinda
ironic that you did your first recordings on your
four-track then you went into a studio owned by your
partner in your furniture-moving business..kinda
ironic the whole thing
not
really, what happened was I had a four-track and then
I finished the thing..it was done and just sittin'
around and then I see an eight-track up for sale real
cheap and I think four is good but now I'll get
eight..so I got the eight-track which I didn't really
know how to run. .my partner has a sound business
..does live sound so he knew a lot more....so
basically we took the four track out there..dumped
the four tracks onto eight tracks and just kinda
like..on the four-track it was really noisy ..the
sounds were very..interestin'!if yopu think that
sounds low tech the four-track is really..like
recorded on a bad-box basically..he just kinda
cleaned up the sound on it a little bit..basically
its the same thing..there's no division between my
business and my music..all the money..everything.. is
one big ...
Johnny
Dowd enterprise?
exactly..Johnny
Dowd sinkhole....[laughs]
you
also added four tracks onto the original recordings
too.
I
think I added maybe two onto some songs.. ..I
couldn't come up with four more for some of 'em
..some of 'em I added a couple..'bout half of 'em I
didn't add anything..maybe one or two I added..
but
you actually added four entire new songs?
did
I? how did you know that?
I
just read it
oh
yeah maybe I did...
Heavenly
Feast for example..
maybe
I did..there were some different songs and I had a
song on the tape originally that was very neat but I
didn't feel right about doing it ..it was an
interview with Son House at the end of his life and
it was just an interview of them talking to Son House
and I put kinda like slide music of my own weird
music behind it and it was very neat but what was
mostly neat about it was just hearing Son House talk
...and I felt that was kind of like a rip off even
though it was kinda neat so I took that off and put
that Welcome Jesus thing on there instead.. kinda the
same idea..so yeah there were a few new songs when I
did the cd ..I'd forgot..I don't think there even is
a copy of the cassette any more..I guess somebody's
got one somewhere..don't think I do.
when's
the next train gonna arrive?
Uh..
now
that you've toured with the band in Europe are you
thinking maybe in the back of your head that you want
to record a band album next?
well I think
it''ll be a kind of a mix of using the band people
and doing it on my own and maybe doing other
people..I mean I don't wanna do just..like I'll give
you..remind me before you leave.. I brought over a
live tape of the band that we recorded at a club in
New York month ago..if I'm doing a straight band
thing I'd just as soon just..if it's gonna be live
with a band just make it live you know..if I'm gonna
make it in the studio I'd like to make something else
out of it..that's different..but I'll be using these
people and other people..and I got a lot of
ideas..like the last album I'd never really recorded
anything on my own so lot of time was spent on
push/punch record ..just the mechanical end of it
took up a lot of time ..now I know how to do the
gadgets I reckon I could make a lot better sound and
a more interesting album..same concept but it'd have
a lot more interesting sounds and stuff..
gives
something to people who come to concerts something a
bit extra to take away with them
exactly
who's
in your band?
Mike Edmondson is
playing keyboards, Kim Sherwood-Caso is singing..she
also sings on [Memphis]and Brian Wilson on drums..
THE
Brian Wilson...
no the sane Brian
Wilson..the drummer not the singer...
who
else?
that's it
good
luck for the future Johnny..it's been highly
entertaining seeing you live..your live performances
are most certainly something to experience
hope you liked it
we had a good time
good
luck
so long London.
13th
October 1998
